The motorway was relatively clear, which was surprising for a Saturday morning.
As I passed the farm which appears to have been plonked right in between both sides of the M62, I couldn’t help but notice the sheep and how relaxed they seemed despite being surrounded by speeding vehicles.
More relaxed than I was that’s for sure!
Today I was slightly anxious, probably because I’ve never interviewed anybody before.
I exited the motorway and drove through a series of quaint little villages and proceeded to the country lane that leads up to the house where the ‘interview’ was to take place.
When you see this house it is truly breath taking.
As I drove onto the land the first thing I noticed was the stunning country scenery all around me.
I parked my car and was invited inside the beautiful country farmhouse he calls home.
Filled with oddities such as taxidermied birds, animal skulls, photos of strange carnival folk from an era long gone and curious little antique ornaments.
In his office stood a life size fully working Zoltar machine.
“How cool is that?” I said as Zoltar started to tell me my fortune.
This is the home of one of the UK’s biggest stars of mentalism…
Peter Turner.
I first became aware of Pete around 2013 when I purchased one of his products.
Sometime later we connected via Facebook.
Then I attended the first minds convention and was in the bar area the night before with about 50 mentalists/mind readers and one or two well-known magicians.
I felt a little overwhelmed as I didn’t know anybody and everybody else seemed to know each other!
In walked Pete with a few others, he instantly made a bee line for me, gave me a big hug and we chatted over a few drinks.
I felt like I’d known him forever and that’s how our friendship begun.
Over the years it has become increasingly difficult (damn near impossible) to meet up with him due to his busy working schedule, which often sees him travelling all across the globe.
We sat down inside Pete’s home overlooking the dales for a cup of traditional Yorkshire tea, had a quick catch up and once the usual courtesies were over, we began:
MB: Can we start off discussing what other things you like to do outside of mentalism?
Pete: Well I’m a true petrol head, cars, bikes, speedway bikes and quads.
I love anything with an engine, it enables me to take a break, when most people take a break they like to do nothing.
But I can’t do that because my brains constantly firing on all cylinders.
MB: What about music and art?
Pete: Musically I’m a little bit of a Savante’ I can hear a piece of music once, I’ll know exactly what key it’s in and I can play it.
I’m not a great singer but I do think musically I’m pretty gifted.
Music is one of my biggest talents.
Artistically I don’t consider myself very good at drawing.
I tend to become massively obsessed with something and when I feel as though I’ve accomplished my goals I just stop.
Art was just like that, the reason I got into drawing portraits was because my uncle Alistair used to work as a prison officer at Armley prison in Leeds.
My uncle took a photograph of my grandad to a prisoner who drew portraits and so this prisoner drew an A4 portrait of my grandad and it was given to me.
Sometime later it was torn into pieces.
I felt so guilty about the fact it had been torn up.
I wanted to replicate it so that I had the portrait again, and so I became massively obsessed with the structure of portraiture, I listened to podcasts, read books, watched YouTube videos and I learnt to draw portraits in a period of only 4 weeks.
MB: Did you have any prior experience in art? 4 weeks is a very short period of time to get to that level of realism.
Pete: I did have a background in art, from tattooing. I spent about 10 years tattooing, which is the reason for me being heavily tattooed, it has nothing to do with trying to look cool or anything like that it’s purely because I was around that culture.
Outside of engines, art and music, I like filming and editing.
I make short documentaries and B roll films.
MB: Given that you had an unusual family life growing up, you appear to have started to repair the relationship with your dad before he passed, how was that going?
Pete: If what you’re asking me is an insight into my life story, this is something that I’ve previously discussed in depth.
But more recently I’ve just filmed a documentary called the dice man, which is on my upcoming release the ‘How to control minds set’.
So for a better understanding of my background and how I got into this stuff (mentalism/magic) then pick up the how to control minds set and all is revealed in the dice man documentary.
In fact, you’ve had a sneaky peek at it this morning, what did you think of it?
MB: From what I’ve seen, the documentary looks great and I can honestly say that I believe all performers could benefit from the material on there and it would be well worth the investment.
Pete: That’s it you know, and there’s a formula on there that can be replicated.
MB: Do you consider yourself to be a magician, a mind reader, a mentalist or all 3?
Pete: I’m neither, I’m a problem solver!
I look at everything I’m working on as a series of puzzles and I look at the problems and then I fix the problems.
I move the compromise so they’re less visible or make more logical sense and that’s always been my perspective and the way I approach things.
MB: Pete, you’ve created numerous effects over the years, where does that creativity come from?
Pete: When I was starting out, I couldn’t afford to read all the books that everybody else was reading, so I began creating my own material out of necessity and then performing it in the real world. And looking back I really do think that was probably the best thing that could have ever happened to me.
MB: Of all the products you’ve created, which are you proudest of?
Pete: That’s a great question and when I say all of them it sounds a bit weird, but what I mean by that is I go through a metamorphosis with every single release, I look at it as I’m going through this cocooning process and a butterfly comes out of the other side right?
So a lot of my processes are about me shedding my previous self in order for me to be able to move into this next chapter, but that doesn’t mean I don’t perform that material anymore.
So to answer your question in its simplest form, I am equally as proud of all my releases because they’re a reflection of that time in my life when I created them.
MB: You’ve clearly become your own success story, tell me where did the mantra ‘Be The Story’ come from?
Pete: It was an interesting line, I was at a meeting in London and I’d exchanged some material with Iain Dunford and I think he signed off an email with ‘Be The Story’ and I found it to be such an inspirational quote that I adopted it as my own and dedicated myself to becoming my own success story.
MB: You had quite a meteoric rise within the mentalism community and have been relevant for what seems like a very long time now.
Can you tell me what have been your biggest challenges in mentalism?
Pete: The real challenges for me started from day one. As I started to put myself out there and share my material, there was a resentment towards me, especially concerning my ‘be bold’ statement.
When I look back, I understand why people were so bothered by me. You see, because I was so different to the norm, instead of trying something new or different they (mentalists) found excuses not to try or like my material and they disliked me as a result of that.
Yet now when I look back, some of my greatest friendships have grown out of that experience.
MB: Do you think maybe ‘be bold’ was interpreted as a cocky arrogance?
Pete: I wasn’t arrogant, but I was bold. The problem was, that people didn’t realise there was a formula to being bold.
There was a method in my madness!
MB: Can you elaborate?
Pete: Well what I was saying was; interject it into the middle of this stable ensured routine and that is where you have the wiggle room to be bold.
So when I was saying be bold, I wasn’t saying just go out there and guess a name or a star sign or a pin number.
But what I was saying was find something which you know you can do, insert it into the middle of your routine and just be bold in the middle.
You cannot fail as all you’re really doing is just gauging their thoughts.
MB: Can you give the readers an example of how that might look in performance?
Pete: Sure, if I say “Are you planning on moving house right now?”
MB: Well actually my wife’s been looking at some new properties being built, I don’t want to move but she does. (hit)
Pete: Well I wasn’t aiming for a hit, so let’s say you said no and I was totally off the mark.
MB: No I’m not looking to move house.
Pete: Well what that tells me is that you’re the sort of person who is at home where they are, a fairly consistent person, not somebody who likes a lot of change.
Ok I think that tells me everything I need to know about you.
That’s no longer a miss, it’s a gauging process!
‘That tells me everything I need to know about you’ is going to get you out of trouble in every situation. It’s your get out of jail card.
Not only that, if you’ve got one playing card on the table. (Pete now takes one card from a deck and places it face down on the table)
Ok, I’m transmitting a playing card to you and I want you to concentrate on what you think that card is and look at me.
Now concentrate on what colour you think this card is, you’re wrong so change your mind.
Now you’ve changed your mind, instinctively think about the suit and now the value.
Now be honest with yourself think about the value, do you feel like you’re close? Or exact?
MB: I think I’m close but not exact.
Pete: Don’t tell me anything, just in your head make the necessary adjustments to get to where you need to be.
MB: Ok
Pete: So obviously you think I’m thinking of a particular card, yet you don’t know which card I was trying to put in your head.
(Pete now recaps what’s just happened)
“What card was you thinking of?”
MB: The 7 of Spades.
Pete now turns over the card on the table to reveal the 7 of Spades!
(Just for the record I’ve seen Pete do this many times before in bars, coffee shops and restaurants’ yet it never fails to amaze me just how accurate he is.)
Pete: Now there’s an element of chance to that, but let’s say for example you’ve put that in between a name divination.
You’ve already had somebody write the name down and you already have that information.
And now because I already have the name written down, I’m one ahead.
So I take a chance on the pure miracle of the psychological force.
The written name is my safety net.
(Pete goes on to nail a further 3 different cards I merely thought of inside my head)
MB: What gets your back up in mentalism right now?
Pete: The thing that really annoys me the most is that you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Let me give you an example: If I release a physical product, people complain and want a download, if I release a download people want a physical product.
Can you imagine telling Banksy that he has to paint on a canvas, or telling Van Gogh that he is no longer going to paint on a canvas, he has to now paint on a tissue?
It’s my art and I should be able to decide the platform that it’s being expressed on.
It’s just not fair that people feel it’s somehow their right to involve themselves in my creative process.
The moment people start trying to meddle with the art, is the moment the art falls flat and I will not change what I’m doing for anybody.
Haters can hate, that’s their right.
MB: You made a video called who owns you and my understanding of this video is that you were saying that you’re not tied to a job or a company and that you are your own boss. Then all of a sudden you’ve joined Ellusionist and you’re taking a salary.
Doesn’t that make you a hypocrite? And does that mean Ellusionist owns you?
Pete: Well I made a very clever decision and let’s get one thing straight; I was working freelance with Ellusionist for the How to read minds stuff.
Things were happening in China and as soon as Covid-19 started to take a hold of the world, I made a decision and took a paid position at Ellusionist.
Whilst everybody else was struggling to get work, my salary came in every single month, so for me it was a business move.
Not only that, these people are my friends and now I get to work with my friends. I still get to create and I get a salary going into my bank every single month!
So why wouldn’t I want to do that?
The biggest challenge is having people accept the fact that I’m working with a commercial company.
Now if I’ll continue to work with Ellusionist full time is not certain, we’re coming out of the back end of Covid and nobody knows what that will bring.
But I will say Ellusionist have been very good to me. Even during the worst pandemic we’ve ever seen in our lifetime, whilst they weren’t making any money, they still ensured that I had enough (money) to put food on my table.
I mean talk about generous; my computer fried itself and the next day a courier turned up with a brand new MacBook Pro.
Brad (Christian) had it sent to me and it was the same with cameras.
I cannot say anything bad about Ellusionist or Brad Christian, I really feel valued and a part of the Ellusionist family.
But I’m not owned by them, they don’t make me say or do things that I don’t want to say or do. The moment that changes, will be the moment that I say goodbye.
For me I’m just living my life the way I want to and I’m having fun doing it.
Because Ellusionist is a bigger platform, there’s more haters, but I don’t care I’m not doing this for them!
MB: Moving on can you tell me what was your inspiration for the monthly pdf series which you released a few years ago?
Pete: Originally there was supposed to be thirteen different performers and each of those performers were going to write about a different area of mentalism, so before we released anything, some of the performers decided they wanted to release their material independently. Which is of course their prerogative, but I had this idea that I wanted to finish and I’m a massive believer in not wasting your time starting something if you’re not hell bent on finishing it, so because the idea was there, I thought well I’ll just start writing my thoughts down on psychological playing card forces.
I spoke to a few people and they gave me their thoughts and before I knew it psychological playing card forces had become a volume.
I shared it and thought ok I’ll put down my thoughts about readings and other areas of mentalism. All of a sudden it started looking like these thirteen episodes were going to become a thing.
I was travelling and lecturing around Europe at the time and it was really interesting because every single subject that I was writing about at that time also became a source of inspiration for the lectures, it was all material I’d been performing for years anyway but now I was able to solidly road test it and reconfirm that it was good enough to go into my lectures and notes.
So really the series came about quite by accident.
MB: I revisited the series earlier this year and honestly the material is absolute gold, are they still available to buy? If so where?
Pete: Thank you for the compliment and yes they are still available to purchase through a site called the 13 souls https://the13souls.com
I have no affiliation with the site, but I do get a royalty fee if anybody purchases any of my work from the 13 souls.
MB: Have you ever thought about releasing that series as a book?
Pete: I’ve thought about it and to do that I’d have to revisit and rework it.
I’m a student for life, I’m learning every day!
I learnt a series of things yesterday that I didn’t I didn’t know the day before and I learnt a series of things the day before, that I didn’t know the day before that.
That series was written in 2015, 6 years ago!
There’s a lot of things that I know now, that I didn’t know then.
Maybe in the future I’ll revisit it.
MB: Do you have any favourite effects you like to perform?
Pete: Truthfully? I don’t really have favourite effects.
I’m more an opportunist and I perform with whatever is to hand, if there’s a deck of cards nearby, I might borrow them and perform using cards.
Or I may use hypnosis, PK touches or just simply read people.
I’ve turned up to gigs with nothing more than a few sharpies, a drawing pad and a stack of billets.
I just go with the flow and perform whatever feels right at that particular time.
But that doesn’t mean I’m not prepared. I just have lots of tools that I can dip into and I know I can perform any time, any place, anywhere.
MB: Can you tell me more about how you first became aware of Annemann and what drew you to his work?
Pete: Annemann had a book called practical mental effects and I somehow found myself in possession of this book. Inside the book he had a section called impromptu frame ups, when I read that section my brain was firing on all cylinders!
Annemann was so controversial, that I felt like I was somehow connected to his material, it just felt so rebellious.
I instantly realised that most people weren’t going to use these stooging techniques and so my thinking was; how can I take this and stooge somebody and still fool the person that I’ve stooged, because then all of a sudden that person is no longer a stooge.
I was then toying with these techniques and I began fooling the stooges!
MB: I’ve heard many times people say that a lot of what you do requires a stooge, particularly with ACAAN; can you clarify if you use stooges for ACAAN?
Pete: I don’t use stooges; I don’t need to.
But if I did need to use a stooge, then I would.
Stooges are a safety net.
I consider them to be like a life jacket on a boat, I don’t ever want to fall in the water and have to use a life jacket but I’ll tell you what; if I’m stuck in the middle of the sea, I’ll be thanking my lucky stars that I’ve got one!
If it’s a choice between ending up on lad bible as the worst mentalist ever or stooging the person on stage, then you better believe I’m stooging the beJeezus out of that person!
Looking at it from that perspective it makes sense to learn all the tools available to you, because there will come a time when you wish you had learnt them.
One of the worst things in the world and this is a piece of advice for your readers:
I’ve found other mentalists and I’m not naming any names, that have their own character or act, and they’re so scared of reading the traditional material, because they think that it’s going to change the way they perform and the way they act.
It doesn’t do that, but what it does is, it gives you a bigger toolset.
And once you’ve adapted and changed what it is that you’ve learnt from the giants that came before, it expands your knowledge base and also it expands your performing capabilities’ and so you’ve got more tools at your disposal.
MB: In mentalism who do you consider to be your greatest friends and who inspires you?
Pete: I’m currently spending a lot of time talking to Richard Busch and Richard is one of the old guard, we speak not just about mentalism but about life and a whole range of other subjects.
I’ve recently connected with Ben Harris, again old guard. And I spend quite a lot of time talking to Uri Geller.
I jam a lot with Mark Lemon.
MB: I’d never heard of Mark Lemon until you’d spoken of him, can you tell me a little more about him?
Pete: Mark’s an underground genius and he’s worked on a lot of different TV shows.
Something that not many people know about Mark is; he shaves his head so he can ride faster on his bike!
No but seriously, Mark Lemon is one of the few people I know I can trust and discuss ideas with freely.
I’m currently writing a stage show and plan to go on tour with it and Mark’s currently working on this with me.
MB: Can you tell me about some of the other people you’ve worked with?
Pete: I’ve worked with lots of companies, people and mentalists. I’ve worked on acts for Ellen DeGeneres, I’ve worked on television shows in Germany with a mentalist, but I can’t say who due to NDAs.
I’ve worked on Nordic championships and a television series in Sweden, I’ve worked for Netflix, BBC, Channel 5, I was the first person to write a show for Fox in Holland.
I’ve worked on Italy’s got talent, America’s got talent, Poland’s got talent and got talent in England.
I’ve worked on a lot of different stuff much of which, I can’t discuss due to NDAs. Something I’m quite proud of is my work on through the wormhole for Morgan Freeman.
MB: Do you still work as a consultant for other performers?
Pete: All the time and because of the global pandemic, there’s a back log of projects that I’m working on.
MB: Any names that you’re currently working with that you’d care to share with the readers?
Pete: No. I never kiss and tell, and let me tell you why; Let’s say for example, I say something in this blog and I mention that such a body is working on xyz and that person has signed a non-disclosure. If I speak freely of something, it could be potentially damaging to the show or that person’s reputation.
And that works both ways, during lockdown Ellusionist ran a discord, (discord is an app or jamming server much like the old MSN chatrooms)
I would go in there infrequently to see what other people were working on and offer advice.
But invariably I’d share ideas that I was working on too, with the proviso that it was confidential.
Yet I’ve seen companies release ideas that I’ve spoken about in the discord rooms and I’ve also seen people talking online about my ideas as if it’s something they’ve created.
So with that in mind I have to be very careful what I say and who I say it to.
MB: If you could give beginner mentalists one piece of advice, what would that advice be?
Pete: I’ve said repeatedly read as much as possible, watch as much as possible, learn as much as possible and practise as much as possible.
I take Max Mavens advice ‘read and watch everything’ and I am living by that advice.
I try to read as much as I can every single day, some days I might devour a whole book, others it may only be a small manuscript or part of a book.
But the essence is still the same.
I research every new magic product that comes out and if I see something I like, I will put my hand in my pocket and buy it.
A wonderful resource for your readers is https://Lybrary.com
I regularly buy material from there.
The real secret which nobody will tell you is this: It’s alright to fail a million times, it’s alright!
I don’t just mean failing in your routines, or failing with your hits, contacting somebody and them not responding, a gig not panning out, your book not going the way you want it to go or your career not progressing quickly enough for you.
Just keep moving forward.
It’s not about how quickly you get to the other end of the journey it’s about enjoying the journey along the way.
Remember, there is going to be people that are against you, there’s going to be people who don’t like what you do, you can’t make everybody like you and you can’t please all the people all the time.
And if you can please all the people all the time, then you’re definitely doing something wrong and you’re not in a big enough circle.
Never worry about people being against you and don’t worry about people not liking what you’re doing.
Once the census, (multiple people simultaneously) say something needs to change, then you have to look at it constructively and think do I need to change it?
Just be yourself, don’t try to be somebody else or copy anybody else.
Just be you, warts and all and the right people will love you for it.
MB: Would that advice differ from the advice you’d give to a professional mentalist?
Pete: My advice for a professional mentalist is completely different;
Incentivise yourself to change.
What I mean by that is; Let’s say you’ve been doing an act for 20 years and you’ve been getting paid every week to do it.
It’s far too easy to sit back and think ‘Well it doesn’t need to change because I’m making money from it’.
Because you have no incentive to change your act, you’ll keep falling into the same pitfalls that you’ve been falling into for the past 20 years.
Look at your act retrospectively and ask yourself ‘is it time to change?’ Forget the money! Incentivise yourself in other ways to make better changes for yourself.
That’s the only advice I could give, I’m not qualified to tell everybody how they should run their business or how they should perform mentalism, but I do see quite often that people fall into the same old pitfalls of not changing what they’re doing.
Always keep yourself fresh and current, to put that into a word EVOLVE!
MB: For me Pete, my biggest hurdle and I’m sure I’m not alone when I say this; is coming up with routines or ideas for routines.
What would you recommend as maybe an opener?
Pete: Openers need to be really quick and simple, so that you have people hooked in from the start so you can establish yourself.
But if you’re looking for something to open up your neurological pathways to create your own material, pick a routine with multiple phases.
MB: Any suggestions?
Pete: Isabella’s star 3 is a great example, it has several different phases, so I’d say learn that or something like that.
MB: If I’m being honest Pete, I found Isabella’s star 2 a little too complicated, so I’ve never read IS3. (Pete chuckled)
Pete: No. Listen there’s only 3 steps and you just need to take those 3 steps and learn them independently.
I’ll make you bet, I’ll bet you that if you study it, within 30 days you’ll be able to perform it.
You could do it a lot quicker, but I’m saying you can have it polished and perfected in 30 days.
So I have a challenge for you; you’ve got 30 days to learn it, then we’re going to have a night out and you’re going to perform it on that night out.
MB: Challenge accepted!
(Due to personal circumstances, I haven’t actually made a start on the IS3 challenge. I’ve had a very busy work schedule and equally I have a busy few weeks ahead of me. As soon as I’ve gotten on top of my other commitments I will start my 30-day challenge.)
MB: What’s next in the pipeline for you?
Pete: To keep learning my craft.
I don’t think I’m as good a performer as I can be, so I want to get better.
I’m currently creating a stage show that I’ll be touring next year, so I’m forever rehearsing.
MB: Is there anything you want to close this interview with?
Pete: Go into my office and you can see there’s several of my products lying around, choose 2 of anything and keep one for yourself and give the other away to one of your readers, maybe have a small competition and use it as a prize?
MB: That’s very generous of you, thank you Pete.
We finished up and went for food, where we continued to discuss many topics over dinner.
I hope you enjoyed reading this interview as much as I did conducting it?
I’m always open to suggestions, so get in touch using the form on the contact page.
Thanks for reading and I’ll see you on the next one!
Ryan